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 "ui" of Korean language
 
Argument: Naming , Reference: generic , Closed by: root
asapy @ 2008-12-16 06:19:18

I think ui(의) should be separated from the former noun. ui is same as Japanese "no" or English "of" (A of B = B ui A).
What you guys think?

Korean games including ui:
3149 - Pokemon Bulgasaui Dungeon - Siganui Tamheomdae (Korea)
2207 - Zeldaui Jeonseol - Monghwanui Moraesigye (Korea)
2148 - Yangsonui Darin (Korea)
2054 - Geojisui Yunmugok Rondo (Korea)
1971 - Sumeoinneun Nunui Him - DS Allyeok Training (Korea)
1775 - Nolleooseyo Dongmurui Sup (Korea)
1566 - Chungjeon! Hanguginui Sangsingnyeok DS (Korea)
kazumi213 @ 2008-12-16 12:52:38

You are probably right asapy. In fact some time ago I edited #2207 for that reason, but reverted changes. You can check the changelog.

We seem to be using the "Revised Romanization of Korean" system. The problem is that I'm not sure whether such system works the same as Hepburn regarding particles. I just don't know it (nor Korean itself) enough.

One reason that led me to revert changes for 2207 and recent Pokemon is on the wiki entry for RRK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revised_Romanization_of_Korean). There's a box where you can read:

Revised Romanization of Korean
Hangul 국어의 로마자 표기법
Hanja 國語의 로마字表記法
Revised
Romanization gugeoui romaja pyogibeop
McCune-
Reischauer kugŏŭi romacha p'yogipŏp

Note that for RRK "ui" is not spaced. Another reason is the page that I use for automated Korean romanization (also uses RRK): http://sori.org/hangul/conv2kr.cgi
Try it, for all those examples "ui" gets always linked to the previous word.

I know these are poor arguments. If you find some "official enough" source telling about spacing "ui", I will have no problem at all in applying changes.
asapy @ 2008-12-18 10:32:11

Well, i think the problem is what we regard as important: Original Korean word-putting (ui after noun), unity with other languages of the dat (devide ui from noun) or word meaning (devide ui from noun).
I prefer the latter one because of its unity.

>Note that for RRK "ui" is not spaced. Another reason is the page that I use for automated Korean romanization (also uses RRK): http://sori.org/hangul/conv2kr.cgi
Try it, for all those examples "ui" gets always linked to the previous word.

That's because the ui is always linked after noun in the Hangul writing.:)

>I know these are poor arguments. If you find some "official enough" source telling about spacing "ui", I will have no problem at all in applying changes.

I can't have found any (semi-)official sources, which explain the romanization of Korean paticles (조사), due to my lack of knowledge on Korean/English. Although, I found many of universities/collages/books are actually using the devided "ui" style for its romanization in google searching.
Some of these:
>sijo ohwi ui chakkabyol kochal
http://hcl.harvard.edu/research/guides/courses/2007fall/klit212.html
>Hanguk ui minsok
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/indiv/eastasian/Korean/CD.html
>Hangugin ui chongsin munhwa
http://www.lib.umd.edu/EASIA/KoreanRomanizationTable.html

I also found some people are using "noun-ui" like "Hanguk-ui" in wikitionary.
>Hangug-eui sudoneun Seoul-ida.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%EC%9D%98
kazumi213 @ 2008-12-18 12:42:22

I've been reading a bit, but I can't get a conclusion. We can go ahead and space "ui" where it is acting as japanese "no", but this is more the application of a western "word unit" concept than following the RRK system (which was Korean-developed).

Citing your Harvard source (it is talking about how the romanized book titles are stored in their database): "Library word division rule in romanization differs from the Korean practice. Each word or lexical unit is divided (for example, 을, 를, 이, 가, 의, etc. are all separated from nouns)."

So I don't know. Hepburn clearly separates particles, so we do. For RRK, I'm not sure, it seems that *originally* it doesn't. So we shouldn't either.

If you finally decide to space "ui" please note that other parts of existing Korean titles may require spacing too.
asapy @ 2008-12-28 05:04:06

ok, I'll check all the korean names.
DoctorJ @ 2008-12-28 07:10:09

Korean word "ui(의)" is so called helping word(조사), it must not seperated from previous word, cuase helping word cannot be used alone.
yes it's simmilar with "of" but more likely " 's".

like....
"zeldaui jeonseol" is more likely to be "zelda's legend", if this game is invented in korea, it's English name would be "zelda's legend". not "legend of zelda" (although if I think in English legend of zelda is more likely to be the proper one...)

if you decide to seperate "ui" from previous word, you should do the samething to "ul, rul, e, ga, nun, un (을,를,이,가,는,은)". they are same "helping words"

unlike Japanese, Korean has its own spacing rules, No-intro's naming system tries to follow the original pronounciations & the original local game names, why not follow the local spacing rules?
DoctorJ @ 2008-12-28 07:16:50

P.S. RRK is for helping foreigners to read korean so there is no need to specify how to place spaces between words, cuase Korean language has its own spacing system.
kazumi213 @ 2008-12-28 15:25:27

quote by DoctorJ:

"unlike Japanese, Korean has its own spacing rules"

I think this is the key on this discussion. We shouldn't add more spacing arbitrarily just to make it look like Hepburn-romanized japanese.

Hepburn spaces particles -> We space particles
RRK doesn't space particles -> We don't space particles
DoctorJ @ 2008-12-29 07:55:33

then.. plz revert the changes recently made for the korean roms ASAP